A few weeks ago, we interviewed Colonel Hamad-Rhissa, the man who inflicted the Wagner Group his first major defeat on the African continent. Exclusively for Counter-Poison, the spokesman for the CSP-DPA (Stegic Framework for the Defense of the People of Azawad) officialized the alliance between the CSP-DPA and Ukraine. Large interview with Mohamed Elmaouloud Ramadane, spokesman for CSP-DPA.

Wolf Viallet, director of Counter-Poison – What is the real nature of the links between the CSP-DPA and Ukraine?

Mohamed Elmaouloud Ramadane, spokesman for the CSP-DPA – For 12 years now, the Coordination of Azawad Movements (CMA), which, with the support of the June 14 Movement Platform, has become the Permanent Strategic Framework for the Defense of the Azawad People (CSP-DPA), has been developing diplomatic relations to leverage its partners. We explain to them the cause of ours, the problems we face, including the situation of Azawad since the independence of West African States in the 1960s.

We have established contacts with many States. In recent times, Ukraine has been dancing because we have a common denominator: the Russian mercenaries of Wagner, who have also invaded Ukraine. Ukraine sees enemies where the Wagners are, and we in Azawad are facing this organisation, which is the cause of misfortune and destruction in many countries, Libya, Syria, the Central African Republic, Sudan and, of course, Ukraine.

On what plans did Ukraine help the CSP?

Cooperation between the CSP-DPA and the Ukrainians is in its first phase. It is too early to reveal what plans Ukraine has helped us, but I will use this issue to ask Ukraine for military aid, arming, training for our fighters, human rights training … That is the most important thing.

For if Ukraine has its own fighting and facing the enemy directly, we are also fighting for the freedom of our people. That is why it is necessary for us to be helped, particularly militarily, in order to stop the advance of Wagner’s criminals. This appeal is valid for all Ukraine’s allies and for all those who help combat Russian imperialism. The fight against Russian imperialism is a global struggle because Russia is a threat to the whole world. We must combine our efforts to blockade the progress of this imperialist state.

Since when have you been in contact with the Ukrainian authorities?

Hostilities began last August. We came into contact with Ukraine not long ago, perhaps at the beginning of 2024.

With Ukraine, you share a common enemy. How did Russia become your enemy?

It is true that we have a common enemy. Russia was previously a country of mediation, which had representatives in the Follow-up Committee of the Algiers Agreement and which was well aware of the history of the Azawad conflict with Mali for a long time. She chose her side by taking part for the Bamako putschists. It is unfortunate that a power of its stature, once peaceful and reserved, chooses to display itself with the junta in total interference against a people that knew neither Eve nor Adam.

But we believe that she knows that her interference in this fight will not be without legal consequences because she has a large share of responsibility for the extrajudicial executions of Azawad civilians, pushing thousands of people into exile, destroying our infrastructure, decimating and stealing our flocks and other property …

It should be noted that since Wagner’s mercenaries were dependent on the Russian Ministry of Defence, Moscow responded directly and legally to their actions, not as in the time when Prigojin was alive.

Would you like Barkhane’s return to the Sahel?

You know, whatever the power of a foreign force, whatever its intentions, even if they are positive, it turned out that this cannot lead to security. It is difficult for a foreign force to succeed in securing a given country or finding a lasting solution to a conflict. We in Azawad, what we want is not foreign intervention, but rather to recognize the profoundly historical and political nature of the conflict, not to confuse it with terrorism.

We must advocate and defend politically and diplomatically before all international and subregional bodies our cause, and for humanitarian organisations to secure internally displaced populations such as refugees and local human rights organisations to ensure reliable and professional documentation of the war crimes committed in Azawad so that the Bamako junta, Wagner and their supporters are held accountable for their crimes.

In the field, the CSP-DPA can do the job, but we need material help.

We do not want to make Azawad a field of account settlement. We know what we want: partnerships with France, the European Union, with all the states, even neighbouring countries, that want to help us carry out this conflict to the end. Because it has become a problem for the whole sub-region, and it is also a problem that is at the southern gate of Europe.

The Sahel has become a stronghold of destabilization of the entire subregion because the international community has always tried to find solutions to the consequences, the symptoms, but has never sought to make a proper assessment of the causes in order to treat them. Our cause has a political dimension, and the entire international community must put itself behind us and help us to put an end to this Malian and Russian occupation of our territory.

Azawad can be a dyke for those aiming at the Mediterranean and Europe across the Sahel. We can be useful for many things. Take the fight against immigration, for example. We know that if the Azawad problem is resolved favourably, many other problems that are only the consequences of this conflict can be resolved.

We are also reaching out to the OIC, neighbouring States, the African Union and ECOWAS, because these Russian- and privately supported Sahelian junties are committing misses throughout the subregion and are taking these States hostage. If we win this war, it is in the interest of everyone and in the interest of the subregion, and particularly of neighbouring countries that have conflicts at their borders, are subject to displacement of populations and several other security threats.

The Sahel needs stability and we will be the guardians of it, the border guards of our West African, North African and European neighbours. We will work to control the flows of immigrants who are overflowing into the sub-region and into Europe, as well as to stem the drug trafficking that poisons our youth. The Sahel is now the epicentre of global warming. We will welcome scientists and innovators determined to understand and invent the best ways to live and prosper in difficult conditions.

What interest would France have in recognizing the independence of Azawad? Wouldn’t that be seen as neo-colonial interference?

You know, the dispute between Azawad and Malian authorities is one of the oldest conflicts on the African continent. He was born long before the independence of the federation of French Sudan, which included Mali and Senegal. Our community leaders, the notables of Azawad, had sent a letter to General de Gaulle in 1958 asking him not to link the Azawad, which has nothing to see historically, culturally and geographically with southern Mali.

We asked for this long before Mali’s independence, which France did not do in its time, which has become the reason for all these cyclical insurgencies. That is to say, our cause is old.

The underdevelopment, the proliferation of armed groups, drug traffickers, jihadists and insecurity in the Sahel are the consequences of this conflict. Until this conflict finds a definitive solution, taking into account its political dimension and the grievances of the Azawad population, all these symptoms will remain and will worsen day by day, exporting to other countries.

If Azawad became an independent state, what would it look like?

If we find our independence, Azawad will be a bridge between the Maghreb and West African countries. It will be a country where all communities will be respected. Individual freedoms will be guaranteed, as will human rights. Our management will be democratic and we will respect the borders of neighbouring countries, base us on our religion, and respect the customs and traditions of our peoples. Azawad will be the cornerstone of the security of the subregion.

It should be remembered that since the 1990s, this area has never experienced stability for more than five years in a row. We assure the African Union and ECOWAS that we will be a respectful country, a credible partner, which will play its full part in the emergence of the African continent.

We must know that we have a very rich basement. This is what attracts the Russian invaders, it is not the beautiful eyes of the Sahelian putschists, but our wealth, our gold, our oil. We have the potential, in mineral resources and human resources, to exist independently, at all levels.